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Laden not smart enough for 9/11, says his guru: The Asian Age
Khartoum, Oct 23: Osama bin Laden was not a particularly intelligent man, he was a traditionalist in the Saudi Arabia mould, his knowledge was very limited and he definitely did not have the organising capacity to plan and execute a 9/11 - this is how his supposed mentor and well-known Islamic ideologue Hasan Abdullah Tarabi describes him.
Khartoum, Oct 23: Osama bin Laden was not a particularly intelligent man, he was a traditionalist in the Saudi Arabia mould, his knowledge was very limited and he definitely did not have the organising capacity to plan and execute a 9/11 — this is how his supposed mentor and well-known Islamic ideologue Hasan Abdullah Tarabi describes him.
In an exclusive interview to The Asian Age, Mr Tarabi said that while the terror attack on the US would have pleased Osama bin Laden and "made him very happy," and that while he could have even agreed to send money for the operation if approached, he did not have the intelligence to plan the operation. "That was done by those educated in the US and Germany," he said. Mr Tarabi denied close association with Osama bin Laden, insisting that he had met him only thrice. "Twice he came to meet me and once I returned his call," he claimed. He insisted that the Al Qaeda leader was a media creation.
Mr Tarabi is widely credited with being Osama bin Laden’s mentor and is an accepted Islamic authority in Africa and West Asia. He was close to the current government until three years ago, when he left to form his own National Congress Party. He came under US scrutiny when he spoke out in support of Osama bin Laden and has been imprisoned regularly. He was just released from house imprisonment by the Sudanese government on October 13 after 900 days and laughingly says that he has spent over nine years all told in jail or under house arrest. Imprisonment has not subdued him and he spoke out against Arab dictatorships, the US and military governments without mincing words.
Mr Tarabi is well known in Khartoum with every person on the street able to give his address. "We like him" was the refrain with the taxi driver who took this correspondent to his residence and came in to shake the ideologue’s hand. An interpreter, a student from the university who was not required because Mr Tarabi spoke fluent American accented English, could not get over his "good luck." After checking out that the interviewer was a genuine journalist through intermediaries, Mr Tarabi could not stop talking over glasses of fresh juice and strong coffee.
He has a simple theory. "Terrorism is a creation of dictatorships that put a lid on the people’s aspirations which then get channelised into destructive activities. In every culture there are extremist groups (he goes through the entire gamut, from the UK to Europe), especially if there is provocation." "Unfortunately, Muslim countries are under dictators and despots with their anger under provocation being turned into violence. If these countries were all democracies, the level of violence would have been reduced greatly," he said.
The Muslim world is awakening, Mr Tarabi said, "and this can be dangerous." He said it was imperative that this stirring was turned into positive, constructive programmes. "Do not allow this to become a flood that destroys; it is good water, channelise it, use it for irrigation, make it beneficial," he added. The Americans, according to him, are the world’s really violent people. "They built America on violence and now they are using violence in a bid to dominate the world," he said. Most of the dictatorships in the Arab world are being supported by the US. "They don’t want the governments to relate to the grassroots, they want these governments to relate only to them," he added, pointing out that this was a policy that was also harmful to US interests. "If there were democracies the US would benefit economically, we would be able to buy directly from them and not sub-standard goods from developing countries. But then, they do not have the intelligence to understand that," Mr Tarabi said.
He was of the view that Kashmir on both sides of the LoC should become an autonomous unit. But when questioned further, he shifted track slightly to insist that the borders between India, Bangladesh and "even Kashmir" should disappear to create one unit as "you are all one people." He said he had met several Kashmiris and went on to give the usual argument: "India and Pakistan are the same people, the same cultures, why do you spend so much on defence, why don’t you become one unit?" He said there was a need for the Arab world to become one unit, for the Indian subcontinent to become one unit as "this is the only way to stop the US from dominating the world."
Mr Tarabi was critical of the Taliban and said that while Sudan had not recognised the Taliban government in Afghanistan, he had met several high-ranking Taliban leaders at the time. He said he had asked them how they could govern when their women were not free and their society was not even allowed to listen to music. "I asked them, ‘Is this Islam,’" he added. He said he had urged them to build a free and fair society but they did not listen. He said the Taliban had been educated in Pakistan, but while they knew the "sound" of the Quran, they did not know the meaning. The Afghans, he said, are very militant people and would wear the Americans down. "The Americans like to shoot from a distance, but now the body bags are building up," he said.
Mr Tarabi did not bother to hide his dislike for the Americans. He ridiculed their insistence on seeing Al Qaeda everywhere as the visions of frightened men. "They are scared and see the ghost of Al Qaeda everywhere, even where it does not exist," he added, insisting that this was not as organised and spread out as the US perceived. Mr Tarabi, an authority on Islamic movements across the world, also laughed at US efforts to link Iraq’s Saddam Hussein with Osama bin Laden. "Saddam is a Baathist, Osama a traditionalist. Even as Muslims they will not greet each other. They are completely at two ends of a pole," he laughed.
The conversation was lively and interesting, no question too awkward. The 72-year-old ideologue had history at his fingertips. Fundamentalism, he pointed out, was a creation of the Americans. The British had always referred to extremism as militancy. He did not use the term terrorism himself, speaking instead of resistance movements and violence.
In an exclusive interview to The Asian Age, Mr Tarabi said that while the terror attack on the US would have pleased Osama bin Laden and "made him very happy," and that while he could have even agreed to send money for the operation if approached, he did not have the intelligence to plan the operation. "That was done by those educated in the US and Germany," he said. Mr Tarabi denied close association with Osama bin Laden, insisting that he had met him only thrice. "Twice he came to meet me and once I returned his call," he claimed. He insisted that the Al Qaeda leader was a media creation.
Mr Tarabi is widely credited with being Osama bin Laden’s mentor and is an accepted Islamic authority in Africa and West Asia. He was close to the current government until three years ago, when he left to form his own National Congress Party. He came under US scrutiny when he spoke out in support of Osama bin Laden and has been imprisoned regularly. He was just released from house imprisonment by the Sudanese government on October 13 after 900 days and laughingly says that he has spent over nine years all told in jail or under house arrest. Imprisonment has not subdued him and he spoke out against Arab dictatorships, the US and military governments without mincing words.
Mr Tarabi is well known in Khartoum with every person on the street able to give his address. "We like him" was the refrain with the taxi driver who took this correspondent to his residence and came in to shake the ideologue’s hand. An interpreter, a student from the university who was not required because Mr Tarabi spoke fluent American accented English, could not get over his "good luck." After checking out that the interviewer was a genuine journalist through intermediaries, Mr Tarabi could not stop talking over glasses of fresh juice and strong coffee.
He has a simple theory. "Terrorism is a creation of dictatorships that put a lid on the people’s aspirations which then get channelised into destructive activities. In every culture there are extremist groups (he goes through the entire gamut, from the UK to Europe), especially if there is provocation." "Unfortunately, Muslim countries are under dictators and despots with their anger under provocation being turned into violence. If these countries were all democracies, the level of violence would have been reduced greatly," he said.
The Muslim world is awakening, Mr Tarabi said, "and this can be dangerous." He said it was imperative that this stirring was turned into positive, constructive programmes. "Do not allow this to become a flood that destroys; it is good water, channelise it, use it for irrigation, make it beneficial," he added. The Americans, according to him, are the world’s really violent people. "They built America on violence and now they are using violence in a bid to dominate the world," he said. Most of the dictatorships in the Arab world are being supported by the US. "They don’t want the governments to relate to the grassroots, they want these governments to relate only to them," he added, pointing out that this was a policy that was also harmful to US interests. "If there were democracies the US would benefit economically, we would be able to buy directly from them and not sub-standard goods from developing countries. But then, they do not have the intelligence to understand that," Mr Tarabi said.
He was of the view that Kashmir on both sides of the LoC should become an autonomous unit. But when questioned further, he shifted track slightly to insist that the borders between India, Bangladesh and "even Kashmir" should disappear to create one unit as "you are all one people." He said he had met several Kashmiris and went on to give the usual argument: "India and Pakistan are the same people, the same cultures, why do you spend so much on defence, why don’t you become one unit?" He said there was a need for the Arab world to become one unit, for the Indian subcontinent to become one unit as "this is the only way to stop the US from dominating the world."
Mr Tarabi was critical of the Taliban and said that while Sudan had not recognised the Taliban government in Afghanistan, he had met several high-ranking Taliban leaders at the time. He said he had asked them how they could govern when their women were not free and their society was not even allowed to listen to music. "I asked them, ‘Is this Islam,’" he added. He said he had urged them to build a free and fair society but they did not listen. He said the Taliban had been educated in Pakistan, but while they knew the "sound" of the Quran, they did not know the meaning. The Afghans, he said, are very militant people and would wear the Americans down. "The Americans like to shoot from a distance, but now the body bags are building up," he said.
Mr Tarabi did not bother to hide his dislike for the Americans. He ridiculed their insistence on seeing Al Qaeda everywhere as the visions of frightened men. "They are scared and see the ghost of Al Qaeda everywhere, even where it does not exist," he added, insisting that this was not as organised and spread out as the US perceived. Mr Tarabi, an authority on Islamic movements across the world, also laughed at US efforts to link Iraq’s Saddam Hussein with Osama bin Laden. "Saddam is a Baathist, Osama a traditionalist. Even as Muslims they will not greet each other. They are completely at two ends of a pole," he laughed.
The conversation was lively and interesting, no question too awkward. The 72-year-old ideologue had history at his fingertips. Fundamentalism, he pointed out, was a creation of the Americans. The British had always referred to extremism as militancy. He did not use the term terrorism himself, speaking instead of resistance movements and violence.