Pakistan must deliver now: Sibal

Amid growing tensions with Pak, Union Science & Technology Minister Kapil Sibal talks exclusively to Zeenews.com’s Swati Chaturvedi.

“Ajaml Kasab you claim to know,

His Paki origin please prove & show. His parents at Faridkot claimed, This is our child the one we named. A faith that they do not exist, We will investigate if you insist. Why cordon off if you believe, Be open says Nawaz Sharif. Ajmal could be and I am too, Allow us to investigate you. Grossly unfair government is blamed, Because he has a Paki name. Even if his parents agree, This is a grand conspiracy. The Hindus have given this name, Choose now to make this absurd claim. Ajmal belongs to no man’s land, Challenge us if at all you can. Death registers do not claim, A baby born blessed with that name. Non-state actors even if backed, There whereabouts cannot be tracked. If we arrest Azhar Masood, Quite contrary to our national mood. Choose then to say we are in doubt, Do not quite know his whereabouts.” -Kapil Sibal (A poem from Kapil Sibal`s recently published book I Witness.)Post 26/11 Mumbai attacks and amid growing tensions with Pakistan, Union Science & Technology Minister Kapil Sibal talks exclusively to Zeenews.com’s Swati Chaturvedi about his views on Mumbai terror attacks and India’s relations with United States and Pakistan.Swati: You were government’s biggest spokesperson during nuclear deal. Despite that don’t you think United States has been unfair to India post 26/11? They could have much more pressure on Pakistan. Kapil: I don’t think US has been unfair to us. Every country has its own strategic address. At international level, no country attacks another country on your behalf unless their national interest is same as yours. US has its own national interest in Afghanistan. But US is with us and has pressurised Pakistan to take action against the perpetrators after the nationality of the Mumbai attackers was revealed. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and their top commanders had several meetings with Pakistan authorities making them aware that it cannot be business as usual. So it is wrong to say that US has not done enough. And you will see in next few months we are going to mount international pressure on Pakistan. Swati: Recently, a rating agency called Pakistan second nation to have a basket case economy after Seychelles which is totally dependant upon IMF and US fund. The way Zardari said Pranab called him and threatened him with war, did you expect Pakistan to behave in such a manner? Kapil: No we did not expect anything from Pakistan. Whenever we extended our hand to them for peace dialogue they attacked us. And the way they attacked Mumbai last time, Pakistan must decide what they want to do and if they don’t want to change their attitude then we should deal with them in the same manner. On the other hand, if Pakistan is a basket case economy and it ends up being a failed state, its repercussions would not be better either. On one side we would have Taliban which has already threatened to take over Pak provinces if Pakistan further aligns with NATO forces. So Pakistan, even as a failed state, would not be favourable to India. Swati: But has that doomsday scenario already come? Kapil: No it hasn’t but Pakistan is surely slipping in that direction. Swati: After Mumbai attacks when all ministers went into hiding (underground), being a concerned Indian you came out in media and regretted the incident saying sorry to public. What do you think should be India’s policy to Pakistan or US? Kapil: For us first and foremost thing is national security which we are upgrading; intelligence should coordinate with other security agencies as well. Our forces should be modernised. Swati: All the terror victims’ families had just one question about Shivraj Patil. Why did UPA government realise it so late that this man was such a big liability? Kapil: We should not look back in history and move forward. Swati: Barack Obama had said that he would appoint a special envoy for Kashmir issue. What do you have to say about that? Kapil: Such things came out during Obama’s campaign but no such thing has been said for last one month or so. Let him take US Presidency then we will review his policies. He has appointed Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State who knows Kashmir issue as well as India’s stand. So we will see it then. Besides that it is just a hypothetical question. Swati : Pakistan is the only nation which has threatened to use nuclear weapons in case India attacks it. As General Kayani said in case of surgical attacks Pak army will strike within 2-3 minutes. Kapil: Pakistan has never made such a statement about use of nuclear weapons post 26/11. General Kayani was answering to media here which has been behaving like a non-state actor. Such news like use of nuclear weapons should not be said by media so irresponsibly. People are angry and emotional but government cannot attack another country on that basis. We first have to see our national interests and security. We are upgrading our security agencies. We have formed a new law and National Investigating Agency (NIA) and now we are modernising intelligence agencies besides spreading our intelligence network. Apart from that we are maintaining diplomatic channel as well. We just want Pakistan to deliver now. When Pakistan and India have common enemies i.e. non-state actors in Pakistan then they should handover us the evidences rather than asking us for evidences. Swati: Prime Minster Manmohan Singh called Pakistan a victim of terror. Digvijay said Mumbai attackers had made demands and Union Minority Minister AR Antulay said that there was a deep conspiracy behind ATS chief Hemant Karkare’s death. Kapil: I agree with what Prime Minister had said. Pakistan is a victim of terror and Taliban has also attacked Marriot Hotel and Lal Masjid in Pakistan. So Pakistan must take actions against non-state actors on its soil and not send them to India. Why should India become a victim of terror? Pakistan has its own intelligence agency ISI and they must know it. We just want Pakistan to stop supporting them in case it is unofficial. Even there is news that Mumbai attackers were trained by ISI. Digvijay Singh has given clarification on his comment that his comment was based upon media reports and government has said in Parliament that AR Antulay’s statement was false and regrettable. Swati: You were a lawyer yourself. What do you have to say about Indian legal system and criminal justice in India? Why someone like Masood Azhar stayed in Indian jails for five years and then released in return of passengers. Now he heads all the operations of Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM). Kapil: I am not at all satisfied with the legal system. And when Masood Azhar was released, he went to Pakistan and formed a new group Jaish-e-Mohammed. JeM then attacked Parliament. So we should have a zero-tolerance policy against terrorists. Swati: What reforms would you suggest to improve criminal justice? It is said that 98% of land in India is litigated. It would take 300 years to clear the backlog of case in courts. Kapil: In developed nations you have 50 and in some cases 100 judges per one million people. In India it is only 10-12 judges. As a result the backlog of cases piles up. There should be vast expansion of our judicial delivery system. The subordinate judiciary must be given more facilities. There should be a competitive examination at high level as well. Some people say there should be an All India Judicial Service. We need to use modern science & technology in investigation and judiciary as well. Until then our judiciary system will function on age old practice and innocent people will languish in jails. Swati: As a Science & Technology Minister are you satisfied with R&D development in India? Kapil: Our investment in Research & Development is much lower than other countries. For example, US spends USD 330 billion on R&D every year where as we spend only USD 8 billion. It is not going to change until our economy becomes stronger financially and maintain good economic growth for a longer period of time. But we are trying to increase our R&D investment from 0.8% of GDP to 2% of GDP. Adapted by Abhishek